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This episode is sponsored by Wellnesse, that’s wellness with an E on the end. It’s my personal care brand of products that I created when I realized that some of my friends and family members were still using some pretty toxic personal care products simply because they worked better. I set out to create truly natural products that outperformed conventional alternatives, and Wellnesse is the result. Our super popular whitening toothpaste has been helping families create healthier oral microbiomes for a couple of years now. And our hair food, hair care nourishes the scalp from the outside in, which is why we get so many testimonials about hair regrowth and thicker, healthier hair. But today, I’m excited to tell you about our brand new silk floss. Most floss is actually plastic and can be coated with some pretty unsavory ingredients that you’re rubbing directly into your gums. Since what goes in the mouth goes into the rest of the body, we created a truly natural silk-based floss that is gentle, yet effective at keeping your teeth and gums clean and fresh. Check out our floss and all of our products at wellnesse.com.

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Katie: Hello, and welcome to the “Wellness Mama” podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and wellnesse.com. That’s wellnesse with an E on the end. It’s my new personal care line. And this episode is all about raising and parenting healthy kids with healthy brains and bodies in a very changing world. And I’m here with a dear friend, Madiha Saeed, who is also known as the HolisticMom, MD on social media. And she’s a practicing, board-certified family physician as well as an international speaker and author. She’s working with even the UN on creating better nutritional guidelines. And we’re talking about her best-selling book, the original one, “The Holistic Rx: Your Guide to Healing Chronic Inflammation and Disease,” and also, her new book, “The Holistic Rx for Kids: Parenting Healthy Brains and Bodies in a Changing World.”

And we go through a lot of topics in this episode, but a lot of practical advice on parenting, integrating, giving your kids a healthy foundation, the reason that children are suffering more than they have in the past, how to speak to the various parts of your child’s brain, why inflammation is the root cause of children’s chronic disease and how to address it, how to raise mindful children who understand their environment, the factors as a mom to be aware of to teach your children how to listen to their innate awareness of health, how things as simple as lack of protein can cause a cascade of changes on the brain level, how to build a healthy foundation in children, how to view their symptoms and understand them as them having a problem, not being a problem, and so much more. I always love, love, love talking to Madiha. I know that you will enjoy listening to this, so I cannot wait. Let’s join her now.

Madiha, you are one of my favorite people to talk to. I just said before we started recording, you are literally a giant beacon of light and love. I’m so excited to chat with you on this very rainy Monday morning, where I live. So, welcome. Thanks for being here.

Madiha: Oh my gosh, my honor, my pleasure, Katie, I am so incredibly honored. Thank you so much for having me.

Katie: Well, I feel the same way. Anyone who isn’t already familiar with you should be, because you are one of my favorite resources and favorite people. You’re absolutely incredible. You are like a mom who seems to… I’m sure it’s not effortless, but do it all effortlessly, and with grace. And I wanna talk about a lot of health stuff. But first, I have a note in my show notes that you are a professional henna artist. And I wanna hear about this, because I have this strange obsession with henna. And every time I have the chance to get it done, I’m like, my whole body. Could you just cover my whole body?

Madiha: Yes. Oh my gosh, I’m like that. So, no, I mean, I’ve always been artistic, right, using both sides of the brain. But I’ve always been artistic. And so, henna I’ve been doing for, probably since I remember. Whenever we went to Pakistan, as a child, in my grandmother’s house in, like, the rural area, she actually had a henna tree. And we would actually take the leaves off and grind it ourselves, and then into a paste. So, I started from, like, you know, just taking it off the trees, grinding it, making it into a paste, and then applying it to our hands. And that was probably, like, seven years old, doing that. And since then, I mean, I’ve messed up my sister’s hands multiple times as I was learning, you know, because you obviously need, like, practice. But, amazing. So much fun. And now, I do it on brides. It can take hours. I’m not 100… Like, I can’t do it in a second, but it could take hours. But I do it on brides, all over my body. I did it… Actually, I did it on my wedding, over my hands and my feet, on both sides on my own… So, I’m telling you, I love it. So much fun.

Katie: That is some impressive dexterity. I recently had a friend get married. She’s from an Indian background, and she had the most gorgeous henna all over her whole body. Just thought it was so, so, so beautiful. I love that you do that, and how cool that you got to get in touch with the actual roots of it, and, like, making it yourself.

Madiha: Yeah, that’s what I grew up with. And now, obviously, there’s a lot of chemicals that they’ve added to henna. So that’s why I still try to go for, like, the most purest source if you’re gonna do that. And that’s another thing that, you know, even henna, you think something as simple as henna, we did it, actually, on my cousin’s hands, when I did it on her for her bridal. She wanted the chemical one, and actually burned her skin. So you have to be really, really careful, for months. She had to immediately take it off because it burned. So, where it used to start off with just, you know, natural, completely organic, and now it’s been, you know, tampered with, just like everything else in our planet. So, something to be cautious about.

Katie: Well, I feel like that’s actually the perfect segue in, because there’s a lot of, unfortunately, things that that is the case in today’s world. I know you are super well-versed in this, and you educate thousands and thousands of families about this, both as a medical doctor and as a mom, which I think you balance so well and gives you such an incredible perspective into the life of a mother, and also understanding the medical side. And I know you have a new book that I got to preview, which I’m super excited about and I’m a huge fan of, which is “The Holistic Rx for Kids,” and which is what I was so excited to have you on today, because unfortunately, it’s no secret that there’s a rise of all these problems in our kids, rates of things that truly should not have doubled, tripled, quadrupled in one generation, but they have.

Madiha: Seriously.

Katie: So, as moms, I feel like we’re on the front lines, trying to reverse these trends. That was a big part of my story was realizing this is happening, and saying, “This is not okay for my kids. This is not okay for any kids.” And I think moms are the ones who have the ability to create the change, and you have such a unique perspective. So, to start broad, can you walk us through, like, why are we seeing these changes? Why are our children suffering so much now compared to in the past?

Madiha: So, you know, what? And I think that’s the key question, is the why, right? Because suicide is on a rise. You know, mental health issues are on the rise. Autism is on the rise. Basically, almost every chronic health condition, even in children, and adults, are on the rise. So I think it really comes down to, you know, asking that question why, right? Why is your child sick? Why are they difficult to parent? Why are children suffering? Why are we overall as humanity suffering? But, understanding that why, that’s where the hope lies. And that’s what’s so powerful, right? Because that “why” is exactly what’s going on, because our entire lives right now are totally imbalanced. We need to understand why. And because we are currently, right now, our children are making the wrong decisions because… And their brains are not working properly. Their bodies are not working properly. And when it comes to our decisions, our kids’ decisions, what they wear, what they choose to eat, you know, it’s all dictated by their brain.

So, if their child is constantly making the wrong decision, guess what? Their health and their brains are suffering. And so, if we can put our children’s brains and bodies back into balance, that can really make a huge difference in their lives now, and for years to come. And then, specifically, when it comes to our brains, because I think even though we know, as parents, we’ve been hearing about this. We know that these foods are not good. We know that we need to exercise. We know these things. But unfortunately, you know, our children’s and ourselves brains and bodies have been hijacked. And there’s two main pieces of decision-making. And that is, that is really critical in this entire science of decision-making, which is called neuroeconomics. And neuroeconomics, you know, two main pieces, prefrontal cortex and the amygdala. The prefrontal cortex is the more developed part of the brain, and it’s, like, that responsible for your rational decision-making. It examines the pros and the cons, and it helps your child really think about their actions after taking a whole, you know, look at the whole picture.

And then we have is the amygdala, which is, like, the reactive part of the brain. And that one is fight and flight, you know, impulsive. But the thing is, in order to make a thought, a rational thought-out decision, we need to, you know, have both sides working appropriately together in unison. But that’s where the parenting books and stuff got right. But what’s going in today’s world, is today’s our children’s lifestyles are completely out of balance. And despite warnings of a healthy diet, and obesity, and the rise in, you know, the diabetes, I mean, there’s recent statistics CNN reported that diabetes have more than doubled in children in this last year. That’s craziness.

But still, our children are eating more fast food now than ever, junk food, limited diet variety, you know, lack of sleep, lack of nature, lack of exercise and play, negative social environment, all increased exposure to toxins inside, outside of the homes, increased screentime, all contributing to this imbalanced child, leading to inflammation, one of the underlying reasons of chronic disease. Chronic inflammation is technically hijacking our brains, our bodies, and it’s leading to children with, that are just constantly us versus them mentality, their brains are not working, lack of empathy, and their bodies are suffering.

Katie: I absolutely agree. And I know you and I, because we’ve talked about this before, share a heart for that, like, really true connection with children, and understanding how much they’re capable of knowing. I know that’s been a lesson for me.

Madiha: Absolutely.

Katie: The beauty is we don’t have to force any of this. Children are so incredibly capable of understanding, and when we approach it from a perspective of curiosity, and education, and explaining to them, they’re incredibly adept at grasping that at a young age, and integrating for themselves. We don’t have to iron fist this at all. And I know…

Madiha: Absolutely.

Katie: …you share that message. So, explain… You talk a lot about holistic parenting, which I think is a beautiful term. Explain what you mean by that, and how this, like, I’m sure in your life, too, is not a fight. It’s a beautiful journey with your children.

Madiha: It’s a journey, exactly. Absolutely. Because we are mind-body-soul, and our children are mind-body-soul. So, holistic parenting can really help nurture a child’s mind-body-soul from the inside out, and giving them the skills that they actually need for emotional intelligence, you know, enduring, deep, real friendships, making correct decisions, managing stress, and being able to remain resilient, all through childhood, adulthood, no matter what life throws at them. And so, holistic parenting, I feel, is all about raising these mindful children, right? Because we know that mindfulness allows us to see the internal and the external environments really clearly, and showing us how best to respond and be fully aware on many different levels of perceptions all at once.

So, really, holistic parenting is also all about, you know, educating and empowering our children to be mindful of their bodies, their minds, their emotions, their social lives, their environment, you know, learning how to keep their bodies balanced, and giving them the autonomy that they need to make the correct decisions, but to know when their bodies are starting to go off balance, because when a child is mindful about what’s going on in their bodies, you know, they can start to feel when they’re going off balance, and then immediately, on their own, start to correct that imbalances. And so, that then increases their resilience in any situation, and environment. So, I mean, it’s so powerful that, you know… I have four children. Mine are 13, 10, 8, and 6. And I’ve been sort of experimenting with them this whole time, right? And so, it’s so much fun, because when we can really teach them to be mindful and incorporate all of these different levels of perception, all at once, and take into account how they feel, their bodies, their brains, their emotions…

My seven-year-old, who had walked in, I have literally walked in downstairs, and they’ll be like, they’re eating a bowl of sauerkraut. And I’m like, “What are you doing? Why are you eating a bowl of sauerkraut for breakfast?” They’re like, “I woke up a little agitated this morning, so I wanted to feed my good bugs, and help my body get back into balance, so I ate the sauerkraut, mom. And that’s all I want for breakfast. I’m good.” I was like, “Okay.” Or when you see your 10-year-old just meditating on their own, to bring their nervous system back into balance, right? It is so powerful, because before it even becomes a problem, they’re able to then self-regulate themselves. And that is where the power lies.

Katie: Absolutely. Because truly, at the end of the day, we’re not always gonna be there to be that voice for them. So it’s about how do we help them learn that voice and learn those guideposts for themselves, which makes, ironically, the whole journey of motherhood so much easier, and to use your words, so much more fun.

Madiha: So much fun.

Katie: Children are this amazing gift, and when we don’t feel like we have to fight them, it gets… like you said, is that autonomy. And often, I feel like we underestimate how incredibly intelligent and innately, much more than we are, maybe, aware of their body that they are. So it’s all about teaching them that. It’s about just helping them not lose the touch with their natural rhythms. I love that story about your son, I believe, who knew what his body wanted, and he was able to follow that. And I think, like you said, it all goes back to the education and the autonomy. I’ve had similar experiences, like, my five-year-old, I once looked back in the car, it was raining, all her siblings were being loud, and she’s just sitting in the back meditating. And she was like, “I want some quiet.” I’m like, that’s perfect. You listened to your body and your brain. And I think, also, though, that does bring the impetus on the parents of how do we educate them? Because that’s really what it goes down to. It’s not the iron fist. I never tell my kids they cannot have these foods, or if they’re at a friend’s house, they must not eat the cupcake.

Madiha: Absolutely.

Katie: It’s their decision. And I have been blown away over and over by how well, when they are just taught to trust themselves, they make that decision, with no outside impetus from me, no overarching fist of, like, “You must never eat sugar.” It’s not that at all. They know. So, as parents, like, what do we need to know? What are some of those core principles that we can pass on to them? Because like you said, it all goes back to inflammation. And unfortunately, inflammation can be that thing that makes it hard to listen to our bodies. And I think that’s also part of the conversation with our kids. But what are some of those kind of maybe core ideas as moms that we can be aware of and pass on to them, so that they get to keep that innate awareness they already have?

Madiha: Absolutely. And I love what you just said there, that you just have them make their decisions, right? It’s not like us really telling them what they need to do all the time, or what they can do and what they can eat, but it’s all about building a better brain, right, to get those two pieces that we talked about, the prefrontal cortex and the amygdala, working appropriately. I mean, Dr. Perlmutter actually had an amazing book called “Brain Wash,” also, that talks about, and he actually quoted in there, that “The shift away from the prefrontal cortex represents the greatest existential threat to human survival.” So heavy. And that’s exactly what’s going on with our children, and the children’s brains are just not working the way that they should. So, where are we gonna start? And for me, I started off with digestive health and detoxification, social stress, sleep, social, and spiritual health.

And, so, because our children’s brains and bodies are made of food. And, I mean, studies have shown over and over and over that children right now are, you know, at a critical phase of neuro development with lots of hormones, and structures, and behaviors, and molecule connections and, you know, specifically adolescents are then, you know, vulnerable to these stresses that can lead to behavioral changes. And so, their brains and bodies, if they’re not getting the proper nutrients that they need from those real foods to function, then how can we expect their brains to even work properly? So, I mean, specifically, when it comes to adolescent brains, this junk food can impair their ability to think, and learn, and, you know, remember, and, you know, perform, even just memories, simple memories, tasks. And actually, their brains are still developing. And so, therefore, they’re unable to, you know, assess the risks and control actions, and they actually have more dopamine receptors in their brain, so, therefore, they’re able to get more… Like, they feel more of, like, this reward from this junk food.

But the adolescents’ brains can easily then be influenced by their environment. But specifically, again, now let’s go to children. It’s so powerful. There’s, like, more and more research showing how, you know, these fruits and vegetables… And they just did actually a recent study in the UK where they, you know, did, research teams studied data from about 9,000 children in 50 schools, and they found that just eating more fruits and vegetables was better for mental health. I mean, we knew that, but now science is starting to show that.

But another big piece is your gut microbiome, right? Because studies have actually shown that, you know, the infant gut microbiome undergoes dynamic changes in the first 36 months of life. And during the first three years of life, the development of the microbiome is influenced by neonatal and maternal exposures, diet, lifestyle. And our children’s environments really play a huge role in shifting the gut microbiota early in life. And that diversity is then really important in determining the health of our children’s brains, bodies, and behavior. So, a recently, actually, in 2021, it was published in “Gut Microbiome,” the research is actually at University of Alberta, they actually followed more than 400 infants, and found that those children with the gut bacterial composition, those boys with the gut bacterial composition high in a specific bacteria called Bacteroides, at one year of age, were found to have more advanced cognition and language skills one year later, you know.

So, Bacteroides, again, is one of those specific bacteria that produces metabolites called sphingolipids, which are instrumental in the formation and structure of the neurons in the brain. So then it makes sense that if we have more of this microbe, then they produce more of the sphingolipids, that can then, you know, have improved brain function. Which is then so important, because this is just the beginning. We’re just starting to understand this, that… And then you say, how can you get more Bacteroides, is factors, again, same thing that influence the gut microbiota, breastfeeding, having a high-fiber diet, you know, living with a dog or animals, and then being exposed to nature and green spaces.

But it’s so powerful that over the first one or two years, your brain is so malleable. And same with our gut microbiome. And so, if we can give our children, starting from diet-wise, the nutrition that they need to really optimize brain function, that can be really powerful. And then also, not even just as in the gut microbiome, studies have actually shown in, like, almost 2,500 children, that there were found that were overweight and obese, they actually suffer from, from ages from 8 to 16, they are actually suffering from more psychosocial and cognitive consequences in academic performance. So, it’s not just what we eat, it’s how much we eat.

And also then the lack of what we’re eating, because unfortunately, right now, our diet has been, you know, shifting, where lack of diversity… Ninety percent of the Americans, including our children, are deficient in one or more nutrients, which is crazy because then it creates, like, these nutrient and vitamin deficiencies, and then obviously, we’re not getting it in our bodies. Our bodies and brains are not able to function appropriately without them. Like, for example, lack of protein then results in a cascade of negative consequences at the brain level, you know, decreasing the brain volume, altered hippocampal formation. I mean, it is craziness. Same with Omega 3s, and then vitamin D, selenium, vitamin K2, vitamin E, potassium, are all currently lost from the modern diet, and is affecting our children’s brains and bodies.

Katie: And I love that. I think a key of what you just said is focusing on the positive and the nourishment aspect, versus… And this ties into diet culture as well. It’s not about the deprivation. It never was. It’s not like the, “We must avoid processed foods because they are bad.” That’s an element of it. But more so, it’s, we only have a limited amount of calories we can consume per day. How do we educate our children and ourselves about consuming the best possible options to nourish our brain and bodies? And it’s not just, like to your point, it’s not just what we eat. It’s also what our gut bacteria eats. And I feel like that’s what the research keeps pointing to is, it’s not just, like, don’t eat the bad stuff, it’s that you’re nourishing not just yourself, your own brain, your body, but also the bacteria in your gut that control your neurotransmitters, that control all of this. It’s like the master control switch of hormones in the body. And as a side benefit, it’s much easier to parent a child who has not got neurotransmitters all over the place, who’s not having crazy mood swings.

Madiha: So much yes.

Katie: And to the earlier point, kids are innately able to understand this if we give them the opportunity, and don’t assume that they can’t. You know, like, we know, our gut microbiome, like you said, controls the brain. So it’s like, how do we give our children the best starting point and foundation for having these optimal neurotransmitters? And I also feel like it’s important to speak to moms who maybe didn’t know or didn’t have the opportunity to have the perfect birth experience, for instance, and transfer that bacteria, or to breastfeed as long as they wanted, or whatever the case may be. The beauty is, we’re seeing in research, all is not lost. And I know, you see this in your patients, like, there’s so much you can do, even if you didn’t get the optimal start, it doesn’t matter. There’s so much available. So maybe walk us through some of those basic steps you take with your patients, and then I know that you implement with your family every day of building that solid foundation, even if maybe you didn’t get the best start.

Madiha: Absolutely. All is not lost. And so, again, really focus… I try to keep it as simple as possible, focusing on your digestive health and detoxification, and the four S’s, stress, sleep, social, and spiritual health. So, specifically, when it comes to nutrients that regulate, you know, every single chemical reaction in our child’s body, right, just specifically starting with food, tons of fruits and vegetables, eating the rainbow, you know, packed with color, fiber, nutrients, minerals, good fats, clean protein. And, you know, that’s shown, you know, that they can have healthier brains. They’re less violent. They improve their behavior and bodies, you know, so, again, it lowers chronic inflammation. So, I have my patients and my families go down a list, trying to keep it simple, again, just what you said. Don’t focus on the stuff you can’t have. Crowd it out with all the stuff that you can have, right?

And so, tons of vegetables, clean protein, healthy fats, you know, and then fruit, you know, so, it’s, like, some sort of carbohydrate source. But, again, vegetables are also carbohydrates. But tons of, like, eating the rainbow with kids. And that’s what I do in my own house in the morning, and snack, especially when the kids were home all day long as this last year, and even when they’re home on the weekends or after school, I lay an entire plate of tons of fruits and vegetables, in different colors. And that’s what they’re stacking on all day long. I only stock my fridge up with things that they can have. My pantry is filled with things that they can have, right? And that’s what you wanna crowd it out, so there’s nothing they can’t have in my house. And that decreases the stress for me, because now I know that they’re being nourished with those, with… For me, every ingredient, every spice, everything has a purpose, right, in the pantry. So, if they can have that autonomy, right, there’s less of that fighting that, “Oh, I want this. No, you can’t have this. You can’t have that. You can’t have this.” But now, they’re able to make those good decisions, because I’ve packed, stocked it up, but now they feel like, “Yes, I can have everything.” It’s more of like a yes mentality instead of a no mentality.

Then the next piece of that puzzle, obviously, is those toxins, your detoxification. Studies have actually shown that, you know, these pesticide exposures, these heavy metal, the endocrine systems, all of these are affecting our children’s brains and bodies, where they’re not able to tolerate the 85,000 chemicals they’re being exposed to on a daily basis. Like, I mean, just, for example, I mean, they’ve done, in 2016, they did a Canadian study that found that PFAS chemicals are more than 90% of the nearly 2,000 cord sample, blood samples collected in pregnant women. That’s craziness. And that then disrupts our hormones and immune systems, and decreases energy. It leads to liver damage and, you know, mental problems. I mean, there’s more and more science showing that all of these chemicals are really disrupting our children’s brains, bodies, and behaviors. So, really trying to lower the overall toxic load, that can help optimize your child’s brain and body, you know, all those toxins that are leading to this neurodevelopmental damage and disrupting the endocrine system. So, how are we gonna do that? Incorporating, again, foods that can help them detoxify their bodies, keeping their bodily fluids moving, and swapping out toxic things for clean things, you know, lowering the overall inflammation. I can optimize this.

And what’s really simple is, again, teaching your kids that, you know, just like we’re having them read labels for foods, having them read labels for shampoos, which is why I love your brand so much. But, you know, shampoos, and soaps and, you know, all of these things that they’re also putting on their bodies, and just educating them, you know, and not just… And then if they don’t know what something is, we just go look it up and, you know, really empowering them with that knowledge. And then my kids know that they need to make sure that they’re pooping, and peeing, and sweating on a daily basis, because how else is…? Or Epsom salt baths. They love to do, and, like, hot showers and cold showers, and then dry brushing. These are just part of their daily routines, getting out in nature, earthing, you know.

But that’s another piece. That’s the next piece, right? Stress. Oh my gosh, our kids are living in a world of chronic stress, lack of nature, lack of exercise, constant negativity, with our minds constantly going, the inability to sleep, all these negative relationships are really destroying our gut microbiome. And then studies have actually shown that this, you know, chronic stress is actually killing off the brain cells in the prefrontal cortex and making them grow in the amygdala. So, again, it’s super important. You know, even a 2020 Stanford studies, in Stanford University School of Medicine show that these chronically stressed and anxious children, their brains’ fear centers, from the right amygdala, send signals to the decision-making prefrontal cortex. That makes it harder to regulate negative emotions. So, our kids’ stress and their lack, the negativity, is disconnecting these pieces, which is then leading to this lack of empathy, impulsiveness, and poor decision-making.

So, how are we gonna fix that? Again, getting these kids that are chronically stressed to really focus on incorporating a stress management technique into their daily routine. You know, in the morning, for me, for us, you know, obviously the kids are getting their nature every morning, getting that early morning sunlight. They’re like, “Mama, we gotta go and ground.” Because we know that nature heals the body from the inside out. Nature has been shown to… You know, those people that are moving away from nature have increased risk of asthma, autoimmune diseases, you know, food allergies, lower activation of the prefrontal cortex. So getting them to spend time in nature. Right now, they’re all sort of still, some unfortunately, stuck indoors, incorporating that nature for a better mood, the ability to focus, the improving sleep, mindfulness.

And then mindfulness, right? Just what we talked about. Mindfulness calms the amygdala, and helps our children reconnect to our calm. And so, again, educating them about belly breathing, and all those things that can help regulate their heart rate variability, right? Like mindfulness, and meditation, and laughter, and belly breathing, all of these things are super, super powerful to incorporate into their daily routines. And for us, just, my kids have a routine that they know when they wake up, they meditate, they pray. They go out and they have their nature. So if we can… Just like with everything else, just like we do with sleep, right, we get kids in a sleep routine. And we all love routines. Science has proven that that’s really powerful. So that’s what I’ve done, again, with the kids, again, to making sure that their sleep, their social health, making sure every morning they are singing gratitude. Morning and night, we start our day off with gratitude. And that is super powerful, right?

And because science has then proven that gratitude and optimism, that strengthens the connection between the amygdala and the prefrontal cortex, so it’s like you’re getting out of on the right side of the bed every day. And then, making sure that they, you know, making sure, optimize their sleeping, because, again, we know sleep is super important for the brain. While a child sleeps, it cleans out the garbage. It, you know, strengthens connections in their brains. And then, the social. Really, love, and connection, that can be super, you know… Because kids need love to heal, period, right? And now, science has shown over and over and over that, you know, love, starting even from, at any age, can actually, you know, release oxytocin, that love hormone that can strengthen our children’s immune system, develops empathy for yourself and others, and then promotes essential strength and self-regulation in children. So powerful. So much stuff that are simple, right?

They’re easy, simple things that they can incorporate into your daily routine, that can then help them optimize their overall brains and bodies, and then your behavior. So, holistic parenting is all about that love, and the connection, and educating, and empowering your child and guiding them along the way, giving them the positive mindset, and that life skills to really navigate this crazy world. And so that’s what I, truly with every conversation that you have, every hug that you have, every bite that the children take, to their stresses, their sleep, their social, spiritual health, all of that has the power to mold the children’s brain for the better, no matter what age you start. That was a long answer. But wanted to give them… You know, these things are simple, but they’re so powerful.

Katie: Yeah, I love, to just call out some of the key points of I think of what you just said is, like, when our child is struggling with some of those things, it’s recognizing as a parent, they are having a problem, not being a problem, and how can we figure out and address what that problem is? And, to your point, like, there’s something so powerful… I’m a big fan also of the morning sunlight and the getting outside. It’s like, it’s funny to me that we need studies to show us this. But, like, humans, throughout history, have known the importance of nature. Now we have science to back up just how important that is. It’s also completely free to go outside and touch the earth and get sunlight. So, that’s a great easy, no matter what your budget, no matter what anything, you can go outside as a family in the morning. And it’s incredible to see the profound difference in that. And then, like, you said, addressing the core tenets of what’s going on with them, and not assuming that they’re just being problematic, but help them to better have a handle on their bodies, to better understand their emotions. And I view it as, for me, like, taking the responsibility of me as the parent, my job is to provide them with nutrient-dense food, just like you, keeping clean things in the house so there’s never guilt around food. I think guilt’s a very toxic emotion, especially around food.

Madiha: Never guilt around food. Yep.

Katie: Exactly. In fact, I had a great friend recently who, we were at a restaurant, and she was eating these cheesy bread things, but they were made from yucca. And somebody was like, “Well, you don’t have to feel too bad because they’re gluten-free.” And I loved her response, because she goes, “Oh, I never feel bad about food. If it doesn’t nourish my body, it nourishes my soul.” And I was like, how beautiful that she’s not attaching negative emotions to food, and how beautiful to model that in our children. Because at the end of the day, I view it as, like, my responsibility is to make sure they have constantly available, nutrient-dense options to help them understand and process physically what’s going on with their bodies, emotionally what’s going on, their stress.

And that’s exactly like you said, just have the nutrient-dense things available, so they’re always there. There’s never negative emotions around food, and also, too, when they have any emotional struggles, because certainly, that happens with little kids, as they learn to regulate. It happens with teenagers because hormones are real. But instead of judging that, saying, like, “You know, well, what is this feeling? And where is it in your body, and how can you get in touch with it? And what do you need? And how can I support you and love you the best through this?” Instead of like, “No, you shouldn’t be angry.” It changes the whole conversation and puts them back to circle around in that place of autonomy and understanding, because truly, these are skills they’re gonna need their whole life. We’re not always gonna be there to be like, “Oh, you need protein.” They have to learn that. So, how can we help them, early and often, learn that, so that they’re not on that roller coaster?

Because, like I just said, it’s not that they’re being a problem. They’re having a problem. So, how do we, as their parents, address that problem? And also, to your point, I think sleep is a huge key. I know we as moms feel that. We know what it feels like when you’re with a newborn who won’t sleep, like, hormones are a real thing, and sleep is the biggest factor that can mess with those. So, as a mom, a busy mom, and a doctor, what are some tips for sleep for our children, and also for ourselves? Because truly, it’s like the whole, if mom is well-rested and calm, the whole family seems to be calm. What are some ways we can improve that sleep variable?

Madiha: Absolutely. Wow. I think that, you know, we are in, virtually in this digital world, right, sleeping is becoming more and more of a problem, especially when all of us moms… I mean, let’s just be honest, that’s when we’re like, “Oh, we’ve put the kids to bed, and now, like, oh, let’s just scroll through social media.” And that turns to, like, hours and “Man, crap, I should have been sleeping during that time.” But, you know, the sleep is so super important, right? We talked about its benefits, but, unfortunately, specifically with our children, 6 in 10 middle schoolers and 7 in 10 high schoolers are not getting enough sleep. So, studies have shown that almost half of these children in the United States don’t get the recommended nine hours of sleep. Now, that’s craziness, right? So, what are we gonna do with these children? Again, that can become a struggle for parents.

Because sleep training, and I feel like since the beginning, we’ve sort of been taught that we control the kids’ schedules for sleep. Like, “This is what you need to do, this is the time you need to get it. We’re gonna be…” Just, all starting from sleep training, like, right? We were supposed to let them cry for hours, they need to do it on our time. No, that’s not the way. If you give your child the autonomy to make their schedule themselves, they know we know that they know that they need… Like, for example, my older children, like, my younger children, they know that they need 10 to 12 hours of sleep in order for their bodies to function appropriately, to making sure, you know, that they get those sleep and to find a schedule that will work for them, around that time, and then create that soothing routine for them, right? We all have a routine. We all know that the importance of routines for sleep, and making sure you cut out electronics a couple hours beforehand, making sure you decrease the blue light, all of those things, but have… One, role model it yourself. But then, heck, sit down with them and come up with that plan of action themselves.

And I find that is so powerful. And, again, when they start listening to their bodies, their bodies know exactly what they need, and they’re able to start to put themselves to bed. Like, my kids now, they know that this is their routine. They take their Epsom salt baths. Like, one of them likes to take Epsom salt baths during their time with lavender oils. And then they do that… Now they’re starting… My 10-year-old started doing that on his own, you know. But sort of role modeling it yourself, and then start to give them the autonomy that they need to then create those healing sleep schedules on their own. So powerful.

Katie: Yeah, it’s such a profound shift. It took me, I think, until my third to really internalize that lesson. And he was the one that, at two, would be like, “I’m tired. I’m going to bed now.” And even if it was, like, 6:00 at night. I’m like, “Perfect. You know your body.” And he would sleep, and he felt great the next day.

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And I think often, like, you’re right, we get attached to the schedule, or the rigidity, and we teach them to ignore their innate intelligence, when really, we can learn so much from them, and from their innate intelligence, and how amazing would it be if we, as moms, if we could, A, but if we did, B, actually go to sleep when we were tired.

Madiha: Yes! See, that’s what we need to do. So, role modeling those behaviors is really important, right? So, you have to start to create that routine for yourself. Obviously, if your routine is, you know, sitting in front of a, you know, your television, or sitting in front of your phone, then we can’t expect it from them. So, really trying to create that routine then, yourself, about all those things that really benefit you, and then making sure you prioritize your sleep, so then your children will do the same after role modeling that.

Katie: Absolutely. And I think also if you shift your perspective, I think you would agree with this, our children become our greatest teachers. My kids have taught me so much about the importance of play, and laughter, and not taking things too seriously, and about listening to our bodies. And obviously, I strive every day to make sure I’m teaching them as well. But I feel like, if you view that as a very, like, equal, symbiotic relationship, so many beautiful things happen. I think that also shifts how you relate to your children. And you talked about this some in your own work, I’d love to hear about it here, is how to, like, guide and, even maybe use the word discipline, although I think, like, I love the word “guide” better, but for good behavior, because I feel like when you shift that perspective, it becomes so much less of a fight, and so much more of a fun, educational journey together.

Madiha: Absolutely. Wow. The word discipline, I think, we have to understand that discipline does not mean punishment, right? It doesn’t mean punishment. So, discipline, on the other hand, comes from, like, a Latin root word, called, means “to teach.” So, and discipline is, like, a range of ways that you can parent, and interact, and teach your kids, so they understand what is really expected of them. And so, the child then will make good, thought-out decisions on their own. So, discipline is like a set of rules, and tools, and guidelines that really help a child set up, you know, basically getting a way for them, it helps to set up the child, for allowing their prefrontal cortex and their amygdala to work in unison. So, by explaining to a child what you expect from them, what happens is that, then, these two pieces start to work appropriately, because that way, they know what to expect, they understand real-life consequences, and if they don’t do what they’re doing.

So it’s like really, a thought-out plan that is not intended to hurt a child, but to really shape a child’s future. And real discipline doesn’t…you know, focuses on the misbehavior and not the child. And so, that’s when we have to start separating those things, right? And so, when it comes to, like, it’s really… You know, when it comes to disciplining our children, we have to understand that we need to first role model that good behavior for them. Because that connection, and the empathy that are key, that is super key to getting a good behavior that you’re looking for from your child. And if there’s misbehavior, then try to figure…and it’s important to find out why the child is sort of out of balance is what I’d like to say, right? But when the child gets that empathy and the comfort from a trusted adult, they’re able to use, like, self-calm and self-regulate their bodies and their brains. And that relationship is then really super critical for good behavior. So that’s super, again, important for disciplining your child, is making sure that you’re role modeling that for them.

And for me, and I know I’ve listened to lots of podcasts of yours, and you do the same thing, you treat them like adults. They have real-life consequences. I treat my children… I don’t do anything for them that they can’t do themselves. You know, but we need to give them enough credit. Talk to them, set these rules, sit down with them, and come up with, like, family rules. And, you know, setting… We love to do that, maybe every year, as the children grow, come up with different rules for your family that they’re sitting them and making them, you know, making them together, and then setting those consequences together. You know, and then, use choices and set real-life expectations. In my house, if the chores aren’t done, you know…in my house, it’s like work first before play. “I would like you to do the…” But they know that. They actually wake up in the morning, I know this is craziness, because of it, they chose this themselves, they made those rules themselves. Before I’ll even come down, I’ll be meditating upstairs, they’re downstairs already early in the morning. The dishes are done, Katie. The laundry is folded.

Like, I’m telling you, well, my seven-year-old… They all know their responsibilities. So, before they go to school in the morning, all of that is done. And then they’re able to, one is making their lunches. They know what they’re doing because they came up with those chores themselves. They came up with those rules themselves. And then, they’re like, “Oh, this is awesome.” So, really educating every child that every person is responsible for their own choices, and when faced with real life, you know, choices and consequences that they can deal with, you know, real-life consequences. Like, if they’re deciding to play and they’re not doing their homework, okay, you can deal with that life’s consequences.

I don’t even wake up my kids in the morning to go to school, because I want them to start to, again, learn those…treat them like adults. And it’s craziness. I’ve almost never had to wake up my 13-year-old. He’s up early in the morning, 6:00. He gets his chores done. He does his priorities. And then, if they have a podcast… They’ve also started a podcast, “The Holistic Kid Show” podcast, he’ll do their prep in the morning, too, with his brothers, if they wake up. And if they don’t, then they suffer the consequences. And that, I think, is super important. And then, appreciating good behavior, right? Sticker charts, point systems, even just words of not just, like, “Oh, you’re a good boy,” but instead of using words like that, you wanna be using words like, “Wow, that’s amazing. You’re such a big…you’re like…only big boys do that. That’s awesome.”

You know, but not, like, saying, “Your behavior is, like, bad or good.” And not constantly, but lots of attention to this good behavior actually leads to more good behavior. So, using words really carefully, like, because the harsher the words that you use, that activates the amygdala and leads to further disobedience. And then, when there’s a problem, you look for where your child could be out of balance. You know, not to look at it as this is bad, just like what you said at the beginning. And I think that’s what we do, is like, “Oh, you’re such a bad child.” No. They’re not a bad child. They’re just maybe an out-of-balance child. We just have to figure out, okay, are they lonely? You know, is there attention issues, nutrition issues? Maybe are they stressed? Is there a sleep issue? Gratitude? Do they feel isolated? Do they need more attention? Do we need to spend more time together? So, really remember to validate your child’s feelings, and then work together to find out, you know, where are they out of balance? What can I do? What can we do to help your body feel better, together, as a family?

And these symptoms and signs, they’re not bad. They’re not, like, trying to fight against these symptoms, just like with symptoms for, we do with, you know, if somebody has eczema, or allergies, these are not bad symptoms. This is your body talking to you. So, behavior is the same way. Behavior is your body talking to you. Your child’s behavior is their body talking to them, saying what it could be off-balance. And remember to just start slow, build over time, decide what battle is worth taking into consideration, the whole child, and then really focusing back on the foundations of the holistic parenting, you know, the digestive health, detoxification, stress, sleep, social, spiritual health, because that will then help them build healthy brains, bodies, and then better behavior. But again, working together as a family is key in discipline, and really validating, and treating them like adults.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And creating a culture that helps them succeed, I love your point about praising and affirming the behavior, something that it’s within their control, versus them, because I know I got told I was smart as a kid, and then I got this fear of, like, don’t do anything that makes you appear…… Whereas if you say, like, “Oh, you worked so hard. I really admire how much you worked on this. That was such a creative solution. How did you think of that?” Like, it affirms those things that are within their control. I tell my kids, often the reversal of the Spider-Man quote, which instead of, “With great power comes great responsibility,” I tell them, “With great responsibility comes great power.” And my job as a mom is to give you all the freedom and autonomy and power that you’re gonna need as an adult, and as soon as you show me that you’re ready for it, I’m so ecstatic to give it to you.

And it’s like helping create that relationship through your family culture, like you said, being the role model, and showing them, is so much more powerful than telling them, and remembering, like, exactly like you said, if something’s going wrong, it’s they’re out of balance. They’re not being a problem. They’re having a problem. How can we help them solve it? And that puts you as a mom in a lower state of stress, and a much higher place of empathy, and they feel that, and it’s, like I often say to my kids, “Oh, well, what are you feeling right now? What is your emotion? And where do you feel that in your body? Like, what is it telling you? What can we learn from this?” And to put them in that place of curiosity over, like, “Oh, this is a bad emotion. This is a bad symptom.”

Madiha: No. Yeah, there’s no such thing as a bad emotion, bad symptom, right? And I feel like that’s so powerful, right, Katie, because as they get older, then, they’re not … Any symptom they have, because right now, it’s like cancer, oh my gosh, is terrible, terrible, terrible. You know, fight against this. We gotta fight against it. No. What is my body teaching me? Nothing is really bad or good. It’s just what can we learn from it? So, it’s super powerful, and I think that these lessons can be really then… You take a child out of that state of fear, and put them in a state of empowerment, and that is super important and powerful.

Katie: Absolutely. And just like expected, I knew our time would fly by here. So, this is why you’re on the medical review board, and I’m so grateful to have your ear. We’ll definitely have to have you on for more rounds three, four, five, six, seven. But quickly, let us know about your book and where people can find it. I think it’s an amazing tool for families.

Madiha: Thank you so much. Wow. So, I have… It’s called “The Holistic Rx for Kids: Parenting Healthy Brains and Bodies in a Changing World,” with your name right here. And so, Amazon, any bookstores, it’s available there. I also have a children’s book series that’s coming out simultaneously. It’s called “Adam’s Healing Adventures: The Power of Rainbow Foods.” And this is actually the second one in its series, where it’s basically a functional, integrative, holistic medicine book for children. And it’s really talking about the importance of all these different color foods. And so, both of them are coming out simultaneously, and can be found on Amazon, on my website, bookstores, so… So honored. So, thank you so much for having me. It’s been an incredibly… And by the way, I love being on your medical advisory board, so give me more work.

Katie: Oh, and I love…I feel like trend and the theme of this whole conversation has been, you know, empower and educate your kids. And so, side by side with empowering and educating moms, you made these kids’ books to help make the process of educating our kids easier. And speaking of books, a question I love to ask is if there’s a book or a number of books that have had a profound impact on you personally, and if so, what they are and why?

Madiha: You know what? It changed my… I’ve been studying parenting for years. And studying even… So this, there was one book that is called “The Science of Parenting,” by Margot Sunderland. I loved it. It really dove into the science, and exactly where the brain… Like, what you do as a parent, and what happens in the brain as a child’s doing, when you’re doing it. And then also, my other favorite thing is “Brain Wash,” by Dr. Perlmutter, because it really opens your eyes to what’s going on in the world today, that we have been, you know, just like what we’re doing with kids, where, you know, slapping bad behavior, and not recognizing that it’s our environments, our lifestyle that are really disconnecting our prefrontal cortex and our amygdala. So, therefore, we personally should not be taking response… We shouldn’t saying “bad person, bad this,” but it’s our environment that’s really impacting our decisions. And when we start shifting that blame from the person to our lifestyles, that now it shows, oh my god, there’s so much hope, that there’s so much in our lifestyle that we can actually change and heal and improve, and we can get our brain and body to work for us, not against us. And so, those are the two books that really have impacted me quite a bit.

Katie: I love those. Those will be in the show notes for you guys listening, wellnessmama.fm, along with Madiha’s book, her website. She has so many resources. Also, follow her on Instagram. She’s always posting all the rainbow foods that her family’s eating. Like I said, we’re gonna do more rounds of this for sure, and people see you on the website, on the medical review board. You are so amazing with that. Thank you for your work, for being such a light in the world, and for being here today.

Madiha: Thank you so much, Katie. I love all the work you’re doing. Love you.

Katie: Love you too. And thanks to all of you for listening, for sharing your most valuable assets, your time, energy, and attention with us today. I know that we’re both so grateful that you did, and I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the “Wellness Mama Podcast.”

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

This article was originally published by wellnessmama.com. Read the original article here.

Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

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Katie: Hello, and welcome to the “Wellness Mama” podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and wellnesse.com. That’s wellness with an E. That is my new personal care line. And I am here today with Dr. Manasa Mantravadi, who is a pediatric hospitalist and also a mom. And I’m here to talk to her about plastic exposure because this is a topic I have written about quite a bit in the past and taken some heat for writing so strongly about. But she has gone deep on the research side of this, and as a pediatrician has seen the new studies and paper from the American Academy of Pediatrics recommending that we reduce plastic exposure in children.

And in this episode, we go deep on all the ways that plastic chemicals, not just BPA, but a lot of different chemicals affect the body, and the endocrine system, and hormone levels, and stress levels, and so many other things that really affect our children and our families. And she explains all the things we need to know about plastic exposure and how to make some safe substitutes that can really reduce your levels. It can certainly be overwhelming when we realize how big of a problem this is but she also provides a lot of hope talking about how with certain changes, we can see blood levels drop in just three days. So, lots of practical advice in this one. I know that you will get a lot out of it. I certainly did. And so, let’s jump in. Dr. Mantravadi, welcome. And thanks for being here.

Dr. Manasa: Thanks for having me, Katie, today.

Katie: I’m so excited to chat with you because I think there’s gonna be a lot of topics we can jump around to, but one that I know that you are really well versed on and I’m really excited to go deep on is the idea of plastics, and understanding, they are obviously a huge part of our lives there. We’ve all heard some of the stats about how much plastic we use and some of the environmental problems it’s causing. And I’ve written pretty extensively about this. I think there’s a lot of misconceptions that go along with this as well. And a lot of things people maybe don’t even understand when it comes to plastic exposure and unintentional sources. So, to start broad, I would love to hear how you first, kind of, started getting into researching this and realizing that we had a problem.

Dr. Manasa: Sure. So this, kind of, presented itself to me on a text message chain. So I’m a pediatrician by training and I’m a mother of three young kids. And so, my fellow friends from residency, we all trained to be pediatricians and then we became mothers. We’re always texting back and forth about various topics, whether it’s our kids or, you know, patient-related kind of questions. But one of my friends who’s a neonatologist, I remember very distinctly in July of 2018 texted, you know, “Have you ladies seen this American Academy of Pediatrics policy statement on plastic? What are you gonna do with all of your plastic dishes? I’ve been putting the water bottles in the dishwasher. Oh my goodness, I didn’t realize this was such a, you know, big deal.” And so, that was when the first, kind of, I think from a scientific standpoint, from the medical community that I had heard about it as a clinician.

Growing up, I had heard about it from my mother because I’m Indian. So I was born in India, came here, and we’ve always used stainless steel at the dining table. And in that AAP statement, they said, “Try to avoid using plastic because we actually think that there’s harmful chemicals in plastic that interfere with children’s hormones, their growth, their brain development. And, you know, rather use glass or stainless steel. And so, that’s the first time I heard it from a scientific standpoint. I had heard it growing up because my mother wouldn’t really let us use plastic. And when my own children were born, she, you know, made me switch out any degree of plastic I had to stainless steel for the children because she herself was worried about, you know, chemicals, and specifically with heat, chemicals leaching. So, go figure, lo and behold, the science proved my mother correct. So, mother knows best, I suppose.

Katie: Yeah, it’s amazing to me the more I research health, the more that we find that our grandmothers and mothers’ wisdom was right all along, and then we just understand the science as to why I think there’s, like, tremendous value in understanding that kind of, like, long-held wisdom in a lot of different areas. But certainly, this is another one because plastic is relatively actually extremely new as far as human interaction with this. And I think, also, like plastic has, in many ways, been simplified to just things like BPA or most people think, “Well, it’s BPA-free, it’s totally fine.” And I know that there’s other forms of bisphenols, like FNS, and a bunch of others.

But let’s, like, talk, kind of, on the broad level of that because plastics have only really been introduced for widespread use within the last half-century. And we have drastically ramped up how much we’re using it, and that continues to be the case. I know there are huge floating islands of trash that’s mostly plastic in the ocean. We now know, for instance, my original doctor, Dr. Christianson, talks about how we’ve found plastic chemicals below many feet of ice in places like Antarctica, which means we’ve reached a level of relative planetary saturation with these plastic chemicals. And this is a really big deal because these are not inert chemicals that our body’s used to interacting with. But let’s talk about some of those components within plastic that are problematic and why. Can you, kind of, give us an overview of some of the things that we need to understand when it comes to plastic?

Dr. Manasa: Yes, I think that’s…So I think you touched on a lot of things. I think everyone really, kind of, understands that, oh, plastic’s bad for the environment, right? It was made to be indestructible, right? Like, that’s why it was made because it was cheap to produce. It’s actually cheaper to produce more plastic than to recycle it. And it’s indestructible. So, the problem is that it is indestructible. So it’s bad for the planet because it never goes away. But it is also affecting children’s health. So, I think the big picture thing is just understanding why plastic’s bad, and then I can go into, kind of, the, I would say, three big categories that we think about.

So when we think about plastic, in general, plastic is essentially the chemicals in plastic. So bisphenols, as you mentioned, BPA is, kind of, the one that got the bad reputation, but really, it’s in a family of chemicals of similar compounds, right? So bisphenols, in general, is a family. So you had mentioned other variations. So BPS, BPF, and there’s multiple, which are as bad if not worse than BPA. So I think that’s really important, like, step one to understand that there’s multiple chemicals, even within a family. Phthalates is another one. It’s what makes plastic and vinyl relatively flexible for plastic tubing and it’s used in industrial food production. So, that’s another one that we think about often as far as a chemical in plastic that affects health. And then some of the other ones that we, you know, think about, like, perchlorate is another one, but I think the big, big ones are bisphenols and phthalates.

And so, you know, what about these? What about these chemicals? How does it affect human health and how does it affect children? So, I think to understand that we have to understand that these chemicals, think about it like a lock and a key. So, the key is actually the chemicals and the lock is an organ system. So we call it the endocrine system. So you may have heard of like the hormone system, things like your thyroid, your pituitary, your adrenals, all these organs that are responsible for puberty and fertility down the road. So, these are all part of the endocrine system. And so it’s a big hormonal system and all of these hormones act as basically chemicals or an actual key, right, to the lock, which is the organ.

And so that’s what naturally occurs when your body is growing, and you’re born, and then as you continue on through life, each of these hormone chemicals inserts into a lock, which is your organ. And that allows you to grow, and develop, and be fertile, and have babies, and all of these things. Well, these chemicals in plastic, the bisphenols, the phthalates, the perchlorates, all of these different chemicals that we find in plastic act like that, so that we call them endocrine-disrupting chemicals because they’re real sneaky. They kind of look exactly like those hormones that are supposed to be the key. And so it really messes up that communication.

And so it’s important for everybody, you know, whether you’re pregnant, whether you’re a male, it actually has been linked with decreased sperm count. But for children, it’s exceedingly important because when children are born, they are not fully developed, right? So they go through rapid growth and development, which is why honestly go to your pediatrician, every few weeks at the beginning and every month in the beginning. There’s such a rapid growth and development phase for children. And guess what organ system is really important? The endocrine system.

And so that’s where the American Academy of Pediatrics stepped in and, kind of, linked all this stuff together. And this is not just American Academy of Pediatrics, the World Health Organization, that Endocrine Society, all of these major, major medical organizations made of clinicians and scientists are really sounding the alarms here saying. “These chemicals called endocrine-disrupting chemicals found in plastic are really interfering with our very important endocrine system. And that’s especially important in kids because they need it to grow, to develop, to go through puberty, and even for their brain to develop.” And so, that’s why it’s such a big deal. But it happens to be such a big deal, you know, that no one knows about yet. We’re just, kind of, really understanding enough to talk to other parents and to other clinicians and pediatricians about this.

Katie: Yeah. And you mentioned that heat is especially dangerous, using plastic in the microwave, for instance, or the dishwasher. Can you explain why heat makes plastic more problematic?

Dr. Manasa: Yes. So when you think about this in terms of…So there’s two things that make it more problematic, heat, and etching and scratching. And so, we talk about materials in the substrate, right? So, you know, for example, you have a plastic dish or a plastic water bottle, plastic serving tray, whatever it is, and you’re putting in the dishwasher, it’s already made of plastic. It’s already made of these chemicals that we just discussed. But because it’s contacting your food, there’s a chance that you can what we call leach or transfer, migrate from your tray or your plate or your cup, whatever it may be into the food that you’re eating or into just the exposure when you’re touching and handling it. So, heat will increase that probability of it leaching.

The other one is etching and scratching. So if you’ve ever had like that Tupperware or children’s dishes that are made of plastic and you see those scratches and, kind of, fraying and etching, that also increases the chance of those chemicals, the bisphenols and phthalates, going into your own system. And so, those are the two times that we really say, you know, if you’re gonna use…Well, first try not to use plastic, but if you’re gonna have to use plastic, please avoid, like, putting in the microwave and putting it in the dishwasher. And if you see that your plastic dishes or your serving ware are etched, it’s time to, you know, put them away and not use them for that function anymore.

Katie: Got it. Okay. And I’m 100% with you on these being problematic, especially for kids. And I think, you know, I’ve heard some of the stats about how, for instance, men now have a third of the testosterone that their grandfathers did just a couple of generations ago. We know we’re seeing all kinds of hormonal problems in children, including precocious puberty happening younger and younger. What are some of the other ways that this is impacting hormones? Because, like you explained, these are endocrine-disrupting chemicals that mimic certain things within the body. So they’re sending confusing signals within the body. Like, what are some of the ways hormonally that we’re seeing this societally?

Dr. Manasa: Yeah, so I think the biggest one I think for society is fertility, right? So, when we think about one of the major endocrine system, like, organs is the testes and ovaries, right? So when we think about that, you had mentioned precocious puberty and, kind of, pubertal interruption. So, that’s one of it but remember, the kind of later effects of the ovaries and testes is reproduction. And so it is affecting reproduction in females and reproduction in males. So you are seeing a pretty significant decrease in sperm count and increase in infertility in females. And so that’s why it’s incredibly important to take this seriously because it’s affecting all of us, right? It’s affecting human health as a whole. You know, and I don’t like to say this in scary terms because I don’t mean it to be scary. It is just the science, right, because that is where our sex steroids are produced in the ovaries and the testes, and that is what is responsible for puberty and reproduction. So that’s one main thing.

When we think about the adrenal system, for example, they’re the little glands that sit on top of your kidneys, those are really important for stress and immune responses, right? So, when you are sick and your body needs to fight off that stress and immune response, your adrenal system is really important. And so that is also an endocrine organ. We think about, you know, obesity and growth. The pancreas is another system, another organ. We often think about insulin and glucagon. And those are really things that manage your blood sugar level. And so we do know that it interferes with that as well. So I think a lot of…And this is not to say that, you know, diet and exercise don’t matter, right? Those are definitely the hallmarks. But we have to understand that there is, kind of, environmental exposure that’s also interfering with those very important functions.

And then for kids, one of the things that I really, really care about for children is your thyroid hormone. So your thyroid is a hormone, sorry, a gland that sits in your neck. And that’s why we screen for it in all congenital newborn screening because it’s so important for brain development, so for neurodevelopment. And so that’s why we screen for it. So again, when you think about a hormone that’s essential for neurodevelopment or brain development for children, you know, it’s a big deal. It’s not just women or children or infertility, it really spans so many important functions for us to grow and thrive and, you know, survive as a species.

Katie: Absolutely. And unfortunately, these compounds, they are growing and they’re existing in our environment in a cumulative way. So it’s not like we’re just getting base-level exposure and it’s not growing. Because like I mentioned, this is a relatively new thing that we’re interacting with plastic at this level. And it’s grown so quickly that from what I’ve read, there’s a trillion plastic bags used worldwide every year, which is about a million plastic bags per minute. And so, we have all these tons and tons of plastic waste going into the ocean and into the water supply.

And I think only a very small percentage of plastic is actually recycled because like you said, it’s easier and cheaper to just make more plastic. And it takes a really long time for plastic to break down. And then when it does, it’s still breaking down into problematic components. I think I’ve been read the statistic that every square mile of the ocean has about 46,000 pieces of plastic floating in it. I think another thing that’s important to realize is when we’ve reached this level of saturation is that basic water filters can’t actually remove the endocrine-disrupting chemicals from plastics and from other, like, hormones drugs and different things we encounter in the water supply. But it’s not a simple solution. It’s just, “Oh, we should just avoid plastic and filter our water.” This has become extremely widespread.

Dr. Manasa: Absolutely. And I think you’re spot on when you think about…So, we often try to separate the planet and the human beings, right, but they’re really interconnected, right? So what we do affects the planet, and then, in turn, the synthetic chemicals…So like you mentioned, these aren’t chemicals that are normally found in our body and normally found in the environment. These are synthetic man-made chemicals. And so, it’s really important to think about how those interact with each other. So one of the things you said is, you know, you see all this plastic floating around, there’s more microplastic in the ocean than stars in the Milky Way. And so that’s a really scary fact to me, right?

Because what we have also seen in, you know, like, multiple published reports is that…So I’m vegetarian, I don’t eat fish, but many of the fish that we see and, again, secondarily absorb and eat, like, when we eat, they’re filled with microplastics. So you are actually indeed consuming those microplastics. And in fact, you know, when a mother is pregnant, they have actually seen circulating levels of these microplastics and these chemicals in fetal circulation. So, it is making its way into our human system and it’s not supposed to be there. It’s not supposed to be in the planet and it’s not supposed to be in our body. So I think it’s really important to realize that they’re not separate. They’re very, very connected. And I think it’s important for people to realize that.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. I think people also don’t realize that even if you’re avoiding plastic in your food, which is difficult to do in itself, many of us are encountering plastic through our clothing. And this I don’t think is talked about nearly as much. But are there a lot of things used in clothing now that are actually plastic-based?

Dr. Manasa: Yeah, you know, I’m not as familiar, to be honest with specific clothing products, but I can tell you, it’s everywhere, right? I mean, it’s so all-pervasive. You know, the bisphenols are used in linings of cans, in thermal paper receipts, you know, in what you just mentioned, you know, even clothing. It’s everywhere. Even when you want to go buy fresh, organic fruit and produce, guess what it’s wrapped in? Plastic. So, it does feel like an uphill battle, right, because it’s everywhere. So I think many people start to think, “Well, what am I gonna do about it?” Right? Like, it’s just everywhere, like you mentioned, if it’s in everything, I touch, everything I see, everything I feel, how am I gonna even make a difference?

And I think that’s the big take-home message is that it is scary but you can be empowered with this knowledge that we’re sharing today and talking about to make really simple small steps over the course of time, you know. And what maybe makes sense for you may not make sense for somebody else, right? But just choosing those small, little changes in our daily behavior can make a big, you know, really significant decrease in your exposure. In fact, you know, we used to…You know, again, you shouldn’t have these levels in your body. And previously, we didn’t think we had these levels in our body, but our testing has gotten better now, and we can actually test urinary bisphenol levels. So, again, we shouldn’t have it in the first place.

But now that we’ve got testing that is better at picking this up, we see that when…You know, so you have a baseline urinary bisphenol level. You test your urine, you see how much bisphenol’s in there. Again, should really, in theory, be zero. And then you make some changes. And those levels can drop in as little as three days. So I think that should be the message here, is not the all doom and gloom and the scariness, but rather, your choices, your actions can make a big difference in your own body, in the body of, you know, your parents, or your siblings, or your children but it’s important to know about it so you can be empowered to make those decisions.

Katie: Absolutely. And I think a good corollary that I use here often in explaining this is I think that plastic exposure is essentially like the cigarette smoking of our generation, in that cigarettes were once considered safe and they were extremely widely used, and as new information became available, over time that definitely has changed both the number of people smoking and a lot of individuals quitting. And I think knowing things like what you just said with testing, that’s really encouraging because we are able to get these things out of…at least our levels down more quickly than we used to think that we could, which is great news and means that, like you said, the small changes we make can make a big difference. And that if we can keep our home environments relatively safe, then we’re at least reducing our children’s exposure by quite a bit.

And I, kind of, use the same analogy of people…like, with my kids and the food that we make in our house, for instance, I always make an effort to cook clean, whole, real foods in our house. But if they’re out in someone else’s house, I’m not gonna freak out or stress or tell them they shouldn’t eat certain things because I know that the majority of their exposure is good and I know they’re gonna learn from how they feel when they eat those things that they might not want to in the future. And the same with plastic, like, we can’t…It would truly be impossible in today’s world to avoid any and all sources of plastic exposure.

But we can, to your point, do so many things that help reduce that level and mitigate the damage. And I think that is…Because we’ve certainly made a case for this, how bad plastic is, and I stand behind all of that. But I think it’s also really important to talk about the things we can do individually and collectively that help reduce our exposure and that do make that big difference. I know this has been really important in your own life and you even built a company around this because it was something you wanted to change, but walk us through some of these small steps we can start taking that really do reduce our levels.

Dr. Manasa: Yeah. So that’s a great…And, you know, you had mentioned, kind of, the cigarette smoking. This is actually, in my world, for pediatrics, it’s very similar to lead, right? Like, we used to have lead in, kind of, everything, like in the paint, in the gasoline, and then science came along and understood some trends, and then researched it, and then made, you know, some assumptions, and then validated those assumptions with further research. And then eventually, people said, “Huh, these two seem to be linked, you know, lead exposure and cognitive development in children, and let’s do something about it.” And so, consumer behavior changed, the regulations changed. And now we do…you know, we’re at least much better about lead testing than we were, and mandating that industries, you know, take it out.

And then I think the other big piece is that pediatricians, if you go to your pediatrician, when you fill out some of those questionnaires, often they say, like, “How old is your home?” You know, and if it’s, you know, built before 1970s, oftentimes they have some follow-up questions, and it’s all related to lead. And so, I think this is a really important example of how as we learn through science, that, kind of, society changes. So, you know, clinical medicine will change, your pediatrician may be screening you shortly because we’ve got new protocols in place for plastic exposure, and maybe give you some better guidance on what to do for your kids or maybe your OB-GYN is doing that.

So, I think that’s one thing I wanted to point out is that we will get better, hopefully, as a medical community, hopefully, the industries are getting better because they feel compelled to do the right thing. And hopefully, the legislation gets better because they also feel compelled to do the right thing. But those things take time. Those three things I talked about just take time. So, what can you do as a, you know, listener? What can you do? So at least for children, when it comes to plastic, you can try to…So, again, try to avoid it if possible. But in the meantime, try to use glass or stainless steel, if you’re going to use plastic, keep those food containers out of the dishwasher, out of the microwave.

And again, other food…We’re talking about plastics today, but just, in general, I think it’s important to think about other sources. So, bisphenols are using, you know, the canned foods. So trying to avoid canned food because it’s pretty much detectable in the can linings no matter what. So you can, you know, decrease your exposure that way by avoiding the use of canned food. And then thermal paper receipts, which is an interesting one. And I know a lot of bigger companies have now really transitioned away from it. So, you know, next time you’re at the grocery store, somebody says, “Do you want your receipt?” You can say, “No, thank you. Please don’t print that out.” And so that helps the environment. It helps your own exposure to bisphenols.

So, again, when we talk about personal care products, cosmetics, we’ve already talked about food packaging, but you can look for phthalates in those. And so, make sure to, you know, look at the products before you use them and understand, like, what is that company doing about phthalate exposure in their personal care products? And so, those are just like a few things…Oh, the other thing in the kitchen, I think a lot of people…I know we’re talking about plastic but there’s other things in the kitchen you can do. So those nonstick cooking…I think that nonstick, what we call PFAS, what we call, like, forever chemicals, try to switch out those nonstick cookware to stainless steel or cast iron.

So, you see none of these are crazy big switches, right? Eating fresh food. Trying to avoid using plastic but use practical solutions like glass or stainless steel. Try to eat fresh and healthy, fresh produce, instead of the cans. Say no to the thermal paper at the grocery store, and check your products for these chemicals. I think those are all very simple, easy. It’s not like a big overhaul, right? And it’s just to what level you wanna do it and how you wanna implement that for your own family.

Katie: Yeah, and it seems overwhelming but also it’s helpful, I feel like, to remember that our grandparents all did this, and our parents, depending on our age, also did this. They existed in a world with very little plastic and many more reusable things. And they had much less waste as well, which we know is also a really big, global problem. So it does seem overwhelming because plastic is so convenient. But now there are very much options that we can use, a lot of companies emerging, creating things like what you’ve done, where creating plates and cups that are just like the plastic ones, same size for kids, but that are not plastic. And I think we’re gonna see more and more innovation in these areas, hopefully, and continue to have better options.

But talk about what was your impetus for actually creating these products, I love that you have them. They’re so cute. And this is a tip I’ve given moms for years is get metal cups and keep them…Most people keep cups up high in a cabinet. And I realized I was getting water cups for my kids so many times a day and I was like, why don’t I just put the cups where the kids can reach them? So I put them in the bottom cabinet. But talk about your products because I think they’re gorgeous.

Dr. Manasa: Oh, thank you. Yes, honestly, it was just an aha moment from that same how we started this whole conversation. It came from the text message chain with my fellow pediatrician moms. And when this American Academy of Pediatrics policy statement came out to say, “Avoid using plastic, rather use glass or stainless steel,” I quickly realized that my fellow, you know, pediatrician moms didn’t have a great solution. They were all, kind of, saying like, “What do I do? What do I buy?” But I had grown up on stainless steel. So, if you talk to anyone who is from India or even, you know, the greater Asian continent, stainless steel is the standard of choice and material choice for dinnerware. And just like you said, it used to be in this country. And at some point, we made a very, very big transition to plastic.

And so, I remember when I went…My children, I had twins first, and I remember that food journey, right? You start, “Oh, it’s so cool. They’re gonna start solids.” And you go to the store and every option there is plastic. So, I quickly realized that we had this really great recommendation based on evidence and science from large organizations but we didn’t have a great solution for parents, right? So maybe the rest of the world had great solutions with stainless steel, but that’s not what we were offering parents in this country. And so that’s where the idea came from. I said, “How can I take essentially a tried and true product that I myself grew up on and my own children now use the same products that I used as a child when we go to visit my parents and my in-law, and so, how can I take something from my own roots and take the, kind of, real-world evidence and science of what’s going on and merge them to create something new?”

And it was really important to me that by doing that, you still have to entice children to eat. So just like what you said, that independence, that want to be involved, that want to be excited about eating, you know, kids are very visual learners and, you know, they like that very different sensory exploration. And so, that’s where the idea for the color came from because I didn’t want any toxic paint or anything that would chip or peel and then, you know, come back into the children’s food because that would negate the whole purpose of what I was doing. And so, that’s why I decided to change the color of metal itself. And so, we use titanium coating, which is what we use in the medical world when you have indwelling rods and implants in your body. So, it’s very similar to stainless steel in terms of it being inert, so it doesn’t really react with anything. And so, that’s how the idea came up from. It was my mom, and my girlfriends, and an AAP policy statement.

Katie: That’s another important point to highlight because I think when I first started talking about plastic use over a decade ago, people thought I was being alarmist and that it was, kind of, a fringe thing, and that we didn’t need to worry about it. And like you said, now, this is a policy statement from the AAP. And it’s backed by research studies. We’re seeing the results of this in lab testing. This is not just some, kind of, crazy theory or being alarmist anymore. And the great thing about that is we are now seeing solutions that happen as well.

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I know when I talk about plastic use, I also get questions related to a few specific use cases and I’m curious if you have figured out how to solve any of these. The first thing, you mentioned a lot of produce is wrapped in plastic wrap and I know, like, I’ve ordered some produce bags that are reusable and, like, little drawstring bags. And I think they actually work better in the store. But any other tips for avoiding plastic exposure in produce?

Dr. Manasa: Yeah, that’s a great question. So I think this is where we start to tease out what is within our control and what we can’t control, right? Because there’s all the information. And then it’s like, what can you practically implement, right? You know, so the best way to just get that produce, like the gold standard would be to have your own farm, right? Like, just farm your own land and produce your carrots and the other vegetables and your fruits. But that’s not practical for everyone. Right? So then the next step is, okay, what about, you know, a farmers’ market, right? So you’re buying fresh from the farmers. It’s coming straight from their farm, and you’re able to, you know, touch and feel the food and it doesn’t have to be wrapped in plastic. Again, it depends on where you live. You may not have access to fresh farmers’ markets like that. And then the last is obviously, you know, going to the store.

So, I think, you know, one of the things, you have to, kind of, weigh your options. You want your children or yourself to be eating fresh produce, that’s a step up than the processed food, right? So, I think that’s where we have to start balancing that whole, here’s what I know about plastic, but then what can I really meaningfully do? So, I think the farmers’ market is a really great choice if you are able to. And I know like you said, there are some delivery services that you can find local farmers that maybe even deliver to you.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. And those are, like you said, great ideas for many reasons. And you’re supporting your local economy after many have suffered so much this past year. There’s so many good reasons to do that. Same thing with buying, like, meat products from local butchers and farmers as well. This one I think is a little bit more tricky because I know I haven’t even fully figured out a good way to store meat in the freezer long-term that doesn’t require some kind of plastic packaging. Do you have any tips or suggestions on that? Because that seems like a really tough one.

Dr. Manasa: That is probably a tough one. And I am probably not the one to shed too much light on it because I’m completely vegetarian. But I will tell you, you know, as far as just overall, I think to back up your point on decreasing your family’s exposure to food additives, right, because again, we’re talking about plastic, but there’s a lot of things in foods, so not just the phthalates and bisphenols but, you know, the PFCs, the perchlorates, the artificial food coloring, the nitrates, the nitrites, those are all in there. So I think it’s important when we think about meats, at least eating meat, at least if you can try to eat fewer processed meats, especially specifically like hotdogs, and ham, and meats that are in pre-packaged meals, especially during pregnancy, is at least a good start. As far as storing it in the freezer, Katie, I wish I could be more helpful.

Katie: I agree, especially because even like in the winter when produce is not in season, like frozen vegetables are at least, like, a more nutrient-dense option in some ways, but I am yet to find any options of those that are not in a plastic bag.

Dr. Manasa: And so I think here in lies,this is where…what’s that, the rubber meets the road? I don’t know how to say that correctly. But I’m the same way, right? So here I am, you know, I founded an entire company that is trying to fight against plastic, especially in children’s products, especially in children’s feeding products, right? But I myself am, you know, a mom of three young kids and, like, I don’t live in temperate climates that I can go out to a farmers’ market in the middle of winter, and I do buy frozen food or I buy frozen produce. And to me at least they’re getting…you know, frozen blueberries, yes, it’s in plastic. That’s how it’s served. That’s how it comes in the grocery store. But that’s okay, right? Because at least I’m choosing a piece of fruit rather than a highly processed, you know, packaged, you know, something that tastes like blueberries but aren’t really, you know, blueberries. So, I think that’s where parents and, you know, anybody listening has to start, like, giving yourself a break, you know, not to be overwhelmed by all this. But what can I do that is practical for my stage in life and for what I’m able to do for my family?

Katie: That’s a good point of keeping that in perspective and also realizing stress is bad for your immune system and your endocrine system as well. So if it’s causing you more stress, find that 80/20 that you can do that still doesn’t make your life that much more difficult. Another one I get questions about often is what about restaurants and takeout food because that’s most often in styrofoam, which is in especially problematic form, and has a lot of these things we’ve been talking about that are so problematic. And, like, you with the meat, I feel like I’m not a great one to answer this because we just really almost never eat out. But any tips for takeout or things like that in avoiding some of that plastic, especially styrofoam?

Dr. Manasa: Yeah, exactly. So styrofoam is really bad. You know, I think it’s…So empower yourself to make the decisions in your daily life, right? So, in this case, you know, can you…? So, for example, a simple thing would be, try not to over-order or…you know, I think that one of the things you had mentioned previously is portion sizes, right? So our restaurants have very big portion sizes. So instead of saying, “Oh, man, like, maybe I’ll bring a glass container with me, right? Like, throw it in my bag and bring it with me and I can store my leftovers. Or maybe I’ll split this meal with a friend and then order more if I’m still hungry.” I think that’s one of the other big pieces of this is the amount of wastage because so much of the plastic that we use is in all of the various forms that we talked about, but specifically, the one-use plastics or these disposable plastics, right? So, what you said, the styrofoam or the plastic used for takeout.

So maybe it’s not solving for how you take it home, but even why do you need to take it home? Like, maybe we can also sit back and, kind of, talk about decreasing just overall food wastage. And actually, that’s one of the thoughts behind the way I’ve designed the products too is it’s not just let’s have safe materials, but let’s be cognizant of the amount of food that we’re wasting or the amount of, like, you know, wrapping our brain back around, you know, normal portion sizes. You know, we’ve talked about how our grandparents were used to, you know, glass or stainless steel in the past. They were also used to much different portion sizes than we have now. So I think thinking about those things is all part of the bigger picture here and making those small changes can make a big difference.

And then, you know, empowering yourself on your daily basis, but then really saying like, “I have a voice in this, right, like, in the way I purchase products, in the way I maybe question brands, in the way I reach out to my legislative bodies and say, ‘Hey, like, why is this happening? Or I just read…you know, I just heard on this awesome podcast that this is what’s happening. Why are we allowing these, you know, chemicals in our products, specifically children’s products?’” And so, I think that’s another way you can arm yourself, right? So you’re arming yourself with knowledge and then you’re arming yourself with action. So, whether it’s how you’re purchasing things or speaking out as far as legislation, those are really gonna help move the needles, you know.

And I think the BPA, if you really think back at the BPA, why it got banned, it wasn’t millions of people complaining. It was a small group of moms saying, “We don’t like this. We heard about this, we don’t like it. And brands listened and legislation listened. And I think that’s what’s really important is let’s empower ourselves, let’s band together to make these small changes for ourselves. But then all these small changes when we’re doing it together and speaking out together can make a big difference in how we move forward from this.

Katie: I agree. I think that’s another important point when we think like, “Oh, there’s nothing we can do to change,” is that it takes actually a really small critical mass of people raising awareness about this and requesting action for things to start changing. And we’ve seen that already start to happen. And I’m hopeful that over time we’ll see this…Like you mentioned, we’re already seeing a little bit companies are starting to get more cognizant of this, which I think is another big key in this because certainly all of us should be doing our own parts individually to reduce exposure. But I read the statistic that every individual in the world could do all their recycling and everything perfectly, and it still would not make a huge dent because so much of that is commercial-industrial use of plastics and major companies. And so I think we need…it’s not that we need either-or, it’s that long-term, we need both. We need awareness at both levels. We need big companies understanding, and caring, and being willing to make these changes, which means we have to raise the awareness. We also have to vote with our dollars. I think the moms are the best ones to do that.

Dr. Manasa: Absolutely. And, you know, because now I’ve crossed over, like, I’ve seen…I have this really…I never thought I would be here. If you told me five years ago that this is what I would be doing is, you know, seeing patients and running a company of stainless steel products, like, I wouldn’t have believed you. But what has been interesting to me is, as a business owner, now taking off, like, my pediatrician hat and my mom hat and putting on the business owner hat, there’s gotta be better guidance and there’s gotta be better guard rails with testing. So, when I started my own company, I really looked to, you know, governing bodies, whether it’s the FDA or the CPSC to help guide to ensure that what I was producing was going to be safe because it was going to hit the dining table of families. You know, like, children are eating off of this.

And so, like, even if you are a bigger company and maybe, you know, don’t necessarily see that value, or if you’re a small company and you’re really compelled to do something, there’s not the greatest structure in place. So if you look at a lot of our food…So when we talk about the FDA, you know, they do a lot, like really, really good about oversight for drugs, right, so like, medicine, which I’m also very used to, but much less when it comes to food and food items. And so, you know, having some better guidance…Like, in the European Union, they test for many, many, many, many more things and have many more stringent testing requirements of their companies that are producing things that are food or food contact material.

And so, my company is doing the same thing because I have learned so much now in this journey of mine that we, you know, in our future testing process are, kind of, adding all of the different layers and going to testing standards in the European Union to understand, okay, you know, maybe this is what’s required here, but we’re gonna go above and beyond and go to the more stringent ones because that’s helping to police ourselves, right, as a business. And so I think that’s the other thing. It’s gotta be better options for parents, but even better guardrails for businesses to do the right thing because it’s not easy.

Katie: Yeah, I completely agree. And like you, I’m hopeful that we’re gonna continue to see these changes and I’m really grateful there are people like you educating about this and providing practical solutions because I think the answer is very much twofold with awareness and actually making the changes, but also each of us individually making the changes that we have the power to make right now without waiting on companies to change. As we get toward the end of our time, a couple of unrelated questions I’d love to ask, the first selfish being, if there is a book or a number of books that have dramatically impacted your life, it doesn’t have to be about plastic, but it could, and if so, what they are and why?

Dr. Manasa: Oh, that’s a good one. Okay. So I’ve got two. One is, kind of, a guidebook to my life. It’s called “The Alchemist.” I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of it. It’s by Paulo…I think it’s called Coelho, I think. And it is a fable actually about following your dreams. And it’s about a little boy who follows his dreams and the universe, kind of, conspires to help him. And so, that’s how it has felt, you know, all through my life. I think my parents were really great about, kind of, encouraging me and empowering me to dream big and chase the things that I really wanted to. But this book specifically has really helped guide my journey here because, you know, listen, I’m a pediatrician. I am trained to take care of children and advocate for children. And somehow this topic, this idea, kind of, landed in my lap. And I’m a firm believer because of this book is if you, kind of, set out to do good in the world, that the universe conspires to help you. And so, any degree of success or growth we’ve had, in our very short, like one-and-a-half years of being in business, I feel comes from that. You know, that the universe is really conspiring to help us achieve that mission of creating, kind of, this healthier, safer world for the kids.

And I think from a science perspective, Dr. Leonardo Trasande, who is a fellow pediatrician, and is a lead author of the American Academy of Pediatrics Policy statement on food additives that brought, you know, a lot of attention to this topic, has written an excellent book for anyone who really wants to get a better sense of this all. It’s called “Sicker, Fatter, Poorer.” And that one, for me was a game-changer. I think it’s when my eyes really opened into how big of a problem it was and how it wasn’t just the planet. It wasn’t just our health, but it was, you know, the economic impact of this, you know. And so, it’s an excellent read for anyone who’s really looking to dive a little bit deeper into what this all means, all these toxic chemicals and what it means for our health, for our environment, for our economy.

Katie: Awesome. I’ve definitely read and loved “The Alchemist” but the other is a new recommendation for me. I’ll make sure both of those are linked in the show notes at welnessmama.fm along with links to your products and to you online so people can find you and keep learning. Is there any other parting advice that you wanna leave with our listeners, a lot of moms listening today? And you’re I know a mom as well and a pediatrician, is there any other advice that you have find especially helpful that you wanna pass on?

Dr. Manasa: Yeah, you know, I think a lot of times when people hear this messaging, right, you hear it in the news and plastics bad, and there’s these heavy metals and baby food, you get frozen in time. And you’re like, “What did I do?” There’s so many parents that they visit our website, they listen to this talk and they say, “Oh, my gosh, I’ve screwed up here. Like, how did I hurt my child?” And I think the biggest piece of advice for me that I’ve always practiced with my patients and the parents or my patients is, let’s start to transition from, “Oh, my gosh, what did I do wrong?” or, “What could I have done different?” to, “Now I know. Like, now I know. What can I do moving forward?” So, instead of being, llike, you know, that paralysis of the fear and all this information being thrown out you, just feel empowered and just start looking forward. Because, you know, like what you just said, in three days, you can really decrease your exposure. So, instead of constantly looking back and thinking with that mom guilt of what you did just know that, “Hey, I’m a more knowledgeable mom today than I was yesterday and here are the small little changes that I can do to help my children.”

Katie: I love it. I think that’s a perfect place to wrap up. And I’ve been taking lots of notes and have some bullet points. Those will all be in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm along with some links to further reading about plastic exposure and things we can do about it. But thank you so much for your time. I love that you’re educating about this. I love that you’re bringing the voice of science and research, but also giving very practical answers. And I’m just so grateful that we got to have this conversation.

Dr. Manasa: Oh, thank you for having me and thank you for discussing this really important topic.

Katie: And thank you guys, as always, for listening, for sharing your most valuable resources, your time, and your energy with us today. We’re so grateful that you did, and I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the “Wellness Mama” podcast.

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

This article was originally published by wellnessmama.com. Read the original article here.